From: Magdelin Tey (crux80@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Aug 07 2006 - 21:20:28 EDT
i agree, most of the time VA scanners are quite unreliable. especially in
reporting web vulnerabilities. They do most of the banner grabbing, hence,
it is important for the security tester to have the experience and knowledge
to identify which are false positives.
For me, Pen Test, takes a more creative approach compared to VA. does not
only attempt to exploit the vulnerabilities found from scanners but also to
try other methods such as social engineering, trial and error, etc.
Just my 2 cents as well
>From: xelerated <xelerated@gmail.com>
>To: "Richard Feist" <richard@bluesec.net>
>CC: pen-test@securityfocus.com
>Subject: Re: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:12:56 -0400
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>
>I would add in to the VA section, verifying the results, testing for
>false positives.
>The scanners are great, but not always 100% correct.
>
>To give an example, Once I had a nessus scan tell me a DB was not password
>protected, just the sa user no pass. That was a false positive. Why it
>did that I dont know, but thats how it was.
>
>my 2 cents.
>
>On 8/7/06, Richard Feist <richard@bluesec.net> wrote:
>>
>>H'mmm... I've formed my own view over the years...and before I get flamed
>>this is a gross generalisation:
>>
>>Security Scan ... Run nessus / nmap / internet scanner / retina and
>>produce
>>report.
>>
>>Vulnerability Assessment ... Run nessus / nmap / internet scanner / retina
>>,
>>add a bit of test around a few of the vulnerabilities to beef up report
>>and
>>produce report.
>>
>>Security Audit ... Examine the process and configuration and ensure
>>compliance with documented process / configuration. Incl. Standards, etc
>>where documented ie 17799. Ignore how it can be abused.
>>
>>Penetration Test ... Do a partial VA (generally external, not internal) as
>>prep and then exploit a couple of the vulnerabilites found to prove,
>>sometimes with a token 'we got this'
>>
>>Security Assessment ... Comprehensive end to end test encompassing
>>physical
>>through to human (OSI layer 1 to 7 plus human 8 )
>>
>>From these what we generally are missing is that these need to be done
>>with
>>a good understanding of the business and its operational requirements,
>>generally this is missed and the results are largely un-aligned with the
>>business, risk management and governance. As an industry this is what we
>>need to improve.
>>
>>We also have the problem of the testing being done at large intervals and
>>this tends to lend a false sense of security. With the way things are
>>going
>>this is a waste of time/money for the organisation that would be better
>>spent in ensuring continuous validation of the environment. Ie
>>tracking/managing the operational security and dealing with weaknesses as
>>they occur. What we are seeing with SoX, etc is a pressure to get this to
>>a
>>more 'real time' state.
>>
>>Saying that I do believe that a 3rd party assessment is still required but
>>needs to be more aligned with the business , its risk management and
>>internal/continous testing and this is where the Enterprise Security
>>Architecture should come in.
>>
>>When I get to the stage where the OSSTMM covers both internal and external
>>testing, a continuos cycle plus relevant metrics ...i'll be happy I've a
>>got
>>a "Security Assessment" that has long term worth for the business spending
>>money.
>>
>>Just an opinion :-)
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Christine Kronberg [mailto:seeker@shalla.de]
>> > Sent: 07 August 2006 04:54
>> > To: Arkem Paul
>> > Cc: pen-test@securityfocus.com
>> > Subject: Re: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
>> >
>> > On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Arkem Paul wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > A Vulnerability Assessment should be a comprehensive look
>> > from policy
>> > > and procedures to implementation of security in the network
>> > and should
>> > > include such things as patch management, virus protection, user
>> > > education, SOE hardening, infrastructure configuration, etc.
>> >
>> > So basicly an assessment is equal to an audit? The
>> > description above
>> > is what I usually expect from someone doing an audit.
>> > A vulnerability assessment I tend to understand in terms
>> > of investigating
>> > a specific application (in far more detail than a
>> > penetration test).
>> >
>> > There are a couple of term mixed every now and again (like someone
>> > else just stated: funny that we professionals don't come
>> > up with _one_
>> > definition):
>> >
>> > Audit
>> > Security Scan
>> > Security Assessment
>> > Vulnerability Assessment
>> > Penetration Test
>> >
>> > Did I miss one?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Christine Kronberg.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ----------------
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release
>> > Date: 05/08/2006
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>>This List Sponsored by: Cenzic
>>
>>Concerned about Web Application Security?
>>Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the
>>Analyst's
>>Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to
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>>you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has
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>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>This List Sponsored by: Cenzic
>
>Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution -
>Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As
>attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively
>protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive
>solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and
>vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed
>service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic
>Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you:
>http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time
>we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product.
>Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This List Sponsored by: Cenzic
Concerned about Web Application Security?
Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's
Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise,
you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the
most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration
testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a
managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software
(Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can
help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php
And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your
results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details.
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