From: Mark Ausley, CISSP (Mark@markausley.com)
Date: Sun Aug 06 2006 - 00:16:43 EDT
I agree. Good "bottom-line" on the goals of each type of test.
-- Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: StyleWar [mailto:stylewar@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:01 PM
To: sol@haveyoubeentested.org; 'Mark Ausley, CISSP'
Cc: pen-test@securityfocus.com
Subject: RE: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
I can break it down like legos.
The value proposition of a pen test is an understanding of whether the
investment into detection and response is at an appropriate level.
The value proposition of a vulnerability assessment is an understanding of
whether internal controls such as patch management, physical security etc.
are adequate given a specific risk tolerance.
Although one may use elements of the other, they are, and will forever be-
very different things (despite the boutique's attempts to make them 'the
same thing').
In the hands of a good pen tester, a pen test does NOT have to exploit
vulnerabilities in order to achieve its value proposition.
In the hands of a good analyst, a vulnerability assessment will avoid
excessive commentary on specific exploitable conditions, and instead expose
the flaws that created the opportunity for those vulnerabilities to exist in
that environment in the first place...
.....Now-- go get me some coffee...Teaching makes me tired.
:)
-
StyleWar
"never underestimate the dousing effect of cubicles and
consensus management on the candles of creativity and
leadership"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sol Invictus [mailto:sol@haveyoubeentested.org]
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:13 AM
> To: Mark Ausley, CISSP
> Cc: pen-test@securityfocus.com
> Subject: RE: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
>
> You guys are making this way too complicated.
>
> The only difference between a Vulnerability Assessment and a
> Penetration Test is the fact that a Pen test will verify that
> the vulnerabilities are in fact exploitable by actually
> exploiting those vulnerabilites.
>
> Many services will perform a VA and never run any exploits
> and try to pass it as a Pen test. If you have someone doing
> that, then they are trying to overcharge you.
>
> The price between a VA and a Pen-test can be significant.
> Why is that?
> it's the level of responsibility that the Pen-testers must take.
>
> It's very important that your Service provider know the
> difference and is able to explain the difference. If they
> can't do that then you should not use their services. If
> they have a high priced VA then you need them to justify the
> "value adds".
>
> Sol.
>
>
> On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 00:47 -0400, Mark Ausley, CISSP wrote:
> > A Vulnerability Assessment can vary in scale and complexity
> but will
> > generally include the following:
> >
> > 1. External scan with Nessus, STAT, Retina, etc to obtain general
> > security posture of systems.
> > 2. Internal scan with something like CIS tools, DISA scripts, Gold
> > Disk etc to assess the configuration of the systems and
> their patch levels, etc.
> > There is some overlap between these first two steps.
> > 3. Review system architecture and associated documentation.
> > 4. Interview SysAdmins & Engineers on system operation.
> > 5. Review existing policy, procedures, SOPs, etc.
> > 6. Perform and document the risk analysis.
> >
> > A PEN test on the other hand can include any number of the VA items
> > but usually include a much wider array of testing tools.
> >
> > A PEN test is usually a few hours to a few days as opposed to a VA
> > which can take months to perform. Also, during PEN tests
> you usually
> > have little knowledge of the target systems prior to the test. A VA
> > involves unrestricted access and knowledge of the target systems.
> >
> > A PEN test usually has a pre-set goal. The scope of the testing and
> > its goal is usually spelled out to the tester and can be limited or
> > unlimited. A PEN test can be more likely to break or disrupt normal
> > operations than a VA and always requires official documents
> indicating what is allowed.
> >
> > PEN tests really illustrate the relationship of vulnerabilities and
> > how they can string together to open a hole in what
> appeared to be a solid wall.
> >
> >
> > -- Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Harless [mailto:jharless@kidwellcompanies.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:57 PM
> > To: pen-test@securityfocus.com
> > Subject: Vulnerability Assessment vs. PenTest
> >
> > Where is the line between a Vulnerability Assessment and a
> PenTest?
> > In other words, which tests do you run which identifies your
> > assessment as a pentest rather than a VA?
> >
> > And, related, do VAs still have value? Do you feel that a PenTest
> > includes everything that a VA would (and more)?
> >
> > My thoughts are that a VA is just an effort to document all the
> > identified and potential vulnerabilities on a network. A
> PenTest is
> > an attempt to identify those vulnerabilities and then
> exploit some of
> > them to verify their weakness.
> >
> >
> > James
> >
> >
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-- This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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