From: Thor (Hammer of God) (thor@hammerofgod.com)
Date: Fri Jul 14 2006 - 16:59:18 EDT
What, the trainers aren't good enough? ;)
T
--- New Blackhat Vegas 2006 Training Offered! ISA Ninjitsu: Designing, Building, and Maintaining Enterprise Firewall and DMZ Topologies with Microsoft ISA Server 2004 http://www.blackhat.com/html/bh-usa-06/train-bh-us-06-tm-isa.html On 7/14/06 12:46 PM, "Mark Teicher" <mht3@earthlink.net> spoketh to all: > Anyone on the speaker circuit.. :) > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "Arian J. Evans" <arian.evans@anachronic.com> >> Sent: Jul 14, 2006 1:29 PM >> To: pen-test@securityfocus.com >> Subject: RE: Will the real hacker please stand up and raise their hand >> >> I'm sorry, there's good & bad people out there, and I've worked >> for the bad kinds of folks Terry described, and while I could >> fill pages with sadly amusing anecdotes: that's life. >> >> There's also good folks out there to work for/with, and you >> simply have to look a little harder to find them. >> >> Yes, shameless self-promotion and over-committal BS wins most >> of the time; you should hear my friends in the pharmaceutical >> industry rant about this *same* subject. Except, they have >> a heck of a lot more Riding on their management's mistakes >> than an unfixed XSS or CSRF. >> >> Nothing unique about our industry vs. say accounting, except >> maybe about 600 years of formalized practice. >> >> I've gotten to sit beside PHD's who talk all day about network >> security concepts, but cannot run a sniffer to save their life, >> and I've worked with folks who would pick the PHD over the >> experienced professional to run the sniffer every time. </shrug> >> >> So if it bugs you, go get a PHD and be both. >> >> Mark: I am curious though, I'm headed to BlackHat next month, >> and who is it that you recommend I should be trying to meet? >> >> Arian J. Evans >> +1.913.378.3571 [mobile] >> >> "See? That was nothing. >> But that's how it always begins. >> Very small." -Egg Shen >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Mark Teicher [mailto:mht3@earthlink.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:36 PM >>> To: Terry; pen-test@securityfocus.com >>> Subject: RE: Will the real hacker please stand up and raise their hand >>> >>> But why one doubt a Ph.D. (CISSP, IAM, CCNP, CCDA, CCNA, ACE, >>> CCSA, CCSE, and MCSE) who gained access to a database at >>> Roswell in the early 90's Almost like a person who spent >>> over 10 years with the Federal Government perfecting the >>> skills which enable him to be called "one of the first >>> CYBERSPACE private investigators". >>> >>> Makes you want to attend BlackHat and actually meet and greet >>> a real bonafide grey/black hat hacker. :) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Terry <tvernon24@comcast.net> >>>> Sent: Jul 13, 2006 3:56 PM >>>> To: 'Mark Teicher' <mht3@earthlink.net>, pen-test@securityfocus.com >>>> Subject: RE: Will the real hacker please stand up and raise >>> their hand >>>> >>>> >>>> Just recently, I worked at a company whose main client was >>> the DoD. When I >>>> was being scouted I heard many promises and things that >>> peaked the interest >>>> of an ex-mischief maker. When I got the job I soon realized >>> that the man >>>> running the show was a huge fraud who claimed many accolades >>> above my own. >>>> Everything he said about his technical past was a lie and to >>> make things >>>> worse, whenever he talked about me openly he hyped me up to >>> be something I'm >>>> not from my past reputation. In the end he stopped >>> pretending to be my ally >>>> and I got railroaded but it didn't come without a price to >>> them. When I >>>> think about the whole mess now all I see is how shameless >>> self promotion and >>>> lies can get you anywhere, even a contract with the upper >>> rungs of our >>>> government. Today I surely think the agents in which were >>> involved have >>>> smartened up to this pretend company. >>>> >>>> My example here is I've made myself a bad name being your >>> typical black hat. >>>> When I turn it all around into a useful thing for society >>> nobody wants to >>>> hire me except liars and frauds. The things many of us on >>> this list know can >>>> save a company millions, the sad part is we get picked up by bullshit >>>> artists that cheapen the art in which we're skilled. I am >>> saddened when I >>>> think about all the huge liars and morons that put "Network Security >>>> Engineer" on their business card. Most people who look at my >>> resume aren't >>>> qualified enough to read it, so I get overlooked because of >>> their ignorance >>>> in my field and they pick based on who went to the best >>> school. I'm probably >>>> not alone in this plight. >>>> >>>> /end rant >>>> /dance >>>> >>>> -Terry >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Mark Teicher [mailto:mht3@earthlink.net] >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:23 AM >>>> To: pen-test@securityfocus.com >>>> Subject: Will the real hacker please stand up and raise their hand >>>> >>>> Every once in a while, I read a story on the Internet, that >>> just doesn't add >>>> up, as listed below, it appears most organization, >>> enterprise type companies >>>> have policies preventing the hiring of known or identified >>> computer security >>>> type people, other companies hire them openly or make up >>> some impressive >>>> press statements stating they have hired one with rootfu or >>> some sort of >>>> skillz, whatever they might be.. >>>> >>>> You be the judge after the reading the attached article.. >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: [ISN] Hackers and Employment >>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 03:15:11 -0500 (CDT) >>>> From: InfoSec News <alerts@infosecnews.org> >>>> Organization: InfoSec News - http://www.infosecnews.org/ >>>> To: isn@infosecnews.org >>>> >>>> http://www.line56.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=7766 >>>> >>>> By Demir Barlas >>>> Line56 >>>> July 12, 2006 >>>> >>>> The reason many of us who grew up outside America found this country >>>> charming and worthy of emulation was its principles, at >>> least as projected >>>> on the movie screen. You can argue about their politics, but the >>>> characters portrayed by John Wayne, for instance, operated >>> according to a >>>> fixed code of ethics. They stood for what they considered right; they >>>> never cheapened or sold themselves; and they lived (and died) with >>>> integrity. >>>> >>>> I encountered this America before I actually came here. >>>> >>>> Perhaps this is why it is so easy for me to see what >>> native-born Americans >>>> cannot understand about that their own country: that it is >>> rapidly falling >>>> into decadence. When I say this, I'm not referring to some declining >>>> standard of collective religious morality, but rather to personal >>>> morality. All too many Americans stand ready to pimp >>> themselves, and the >>>> system is now designed to reward rather than discourage >>> them. This is an >>>> arrangement that the rest of the world rightly considers >>> hypocritical and, >>>> despite all talk of globalism, will never emulate. >>>> >>>> Let me give an example. I recently got an e-mail from Avaya, >>> one of whose >>>> employees, Tom Porter, was leading a security team at the >>> World Cup. The >>>> e-mail proudly advertises Porter as a "a former hacker [who] >>> got into the >>>> U.S. government database on Roswell in the early 90s." Now >>> he has been >>>> able to have a highly visible and well-paying job as chief >>> of Internet >>>> security for FIFA and Avaya. >>>> >>>> As soon as I got this e-mail, I recalled the case of Frank >>> Abagnale, Jr., >>>> the fraudster whose life was made into the movie Catch Me If You Can. >>>> >>>> And, I admit, I got angry. I want to tell you why. >>>> >>>> Some of my friends in the ninth grade were aspiring computer >>> hackers. I >>>> suppose it was a natural impulse for a bunch of intelligent >>> boys cooped up >>>> in an otherwise boring programming class. We tried a few >>> exploits but, in >>>> the end, got caught. We were never that good in the first place, not >>>> because we lacked intelligence but because, I am convinced, >>> of the ethos >>>> that had survived into Denver even into the 1980s. The ethos >>> told us that >>>> hacking was bad. We couldn't shrug this off our conscience, and so >>>> conducted our exploits rather half-heartedly. >>>> >>>> I've kept up with many of my classmates over the years. >>> There is, in the >>>> group with which I am familiar, no one who has committed a >>> felony, gone to >>>> jail, or refused to pay taxes. Everyone has walked the line. And our >>>> reward? Most of us struggle along at meaningless >>> occupations, trying to >>>> make ends meet -- punished, I maintain, by our consciences. >>>> >>>> For America no longer rewards conscience. If you kill >>> someone, you will be >>>> offered a book deal. If you impersonate a doctor and nearly cause the >>>> death of a baby [like Abagnale], someone will make a comedic >>> movie about >>>> you. If you become a hacker and endanger our government, you >>> will become a >>>> consultant. If you sink a company, you will find a high >>> position in that >>>> very government. Only competence at criminality and >>> self-promotion are >>>> rewarded. The more vicious, heartless, and inept you are, the further >>>> you'll go. >>>> >>>> If you want to talk about anti-Americanism, you can't find a better >>>> example. The culture of merit, sincerity, and principle that >>> once animated >>>> this country is gone, and that impacts everyone from left to right. >>>> >>>> Have you seen The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? John Wayne's >>> character >>>> refuses to take the credit for an act that would, in that >>> day and age, >>>> have made him famous. His principles dictate that he cannot engage in >>>> self-promotion, which he leaves to Jimmy Stewart's character. Stewart >>>> becomes a senator and marries a woman with whom Wayne was in >>> love; Wayne >>>> retires from public life and dies alone. >>>> >>>> Oh, but today! After shooting Valance, Wayne would have >>> gotten a publicity >>>> agent, launched a blog, and gone on talk shows. He would >>> have done the >>>> lecture circuit, opened a consultancy on how to shoot >>> outlaws, and sold >>>> his "life rights" to a Hollywood studio. >>>> >>>> I'm sorry to say it, but I hate what you might call the >>> post-Wayne America >>>> (and I say this despite having radically different politics >>> from Wayne >>>> himself). It's an upside-down country in which criminals become >>>> celebrities while good, hard-working people struggle along >>> on dollars a >>>> day. There is no longer any act divorced from its promotion. The only >>>> principle is to gather as much money and fame as possible, >>> prostituting >>>> yourself all the way, until you die. >>>> >>>> I do not feel that a country can long endure such principles >>> or such acts >>>> of decadence. They constitute a kind of rot that will, some day, turn >>>> America into the equivalent of the moribund, cynical >>> countries of Western >>>> Europe. Moreover, they are a gleeful betrayal of every >>> principle on which >>>> this country stood for the first two centuries of its existence. >>>> >>>> I suppose this article will be met by incomprehension from >>> people who have >>>> absorbed their values from the post-Wayne moment in American >>> history. As a >>>> historian, I am a professional pessimist, but I can't help >>> but feel that >>>> these very people are only the tip of the iceberg; that, as >>> in the movie >>>> 15 Minutes (or, more apocalyptically, Death Race 2000), >>> crime will pay >>>> even more than it does today. >>>> >>>> It is worth concluding with a passage from Henry Miller's The >>>> Air-Conditioned Nightmare, which captures the spirit of the changed >>>> America to which I allude: >>>> >>>> As to whether I have been deceived, disillusioned...The >>> answer is yes, I >>>> suppose. I had the misfortune to be nourished by the dreams >>> and visions of >>>> great Americans. Some other breed of man has won out. The >>> world which is >>>> in the making fills me with dread....It is a world cluttered >>> with useless >>>> objects which men and women, in order to be exploited and >>> degraded, are >>>> taught to regard as useful....Whatever does not lend itself to being >>>> bought and sold...is debarred. In this world the poet is >>> anathema, the >>>> thinker a fool, and the man of vision a criminal. >>>> >>>> Copyright 2000-2006 Line56.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________ >>>> Attend the Black Hat Briefings and >>>> Training, Las Vegas July 29 - August 3 >>>> 2,500+ international security experts from 40 nations, >>>> 10 tracks, no vendor pitches. >>>> www.blackhat.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --------------- >>>> -- >>>> This List Sponsored by: Cenzic >>>> >>>> Concerned about Web Application Security? >>>> Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to >>> win the Analyst's >>>> Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications >>> continue to >>>> rise, >>>> you need to proactively protect your applications from >>> hackers. Cenzic has >>>> the >>>> most comprehensive solutions to meet your application >>> security penetration >>>> testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an >>> option to go with a >>>> managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software >>>> (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a >>> managed service can >>>> help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php >>>> And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you >>> to confirm your >>>> results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com >>> for details. >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --------------- >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------------- >>> This List Sponsored by: Cenzic >>> >>> Concerned about Web Application Security? >>> Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win >>> the Analyst's >>> Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications >>> continue to rise, >>> you need to proactively protect your applications from >>> hackers. Cenzic has the >>> most comprehensive solutions to meet your application >>> security penetration >>> testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an >>> option to go with a >>> managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software >>> (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed >>> service can >>> help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php >>> And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to >>> confirm your >>> results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com >>> for details. >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------------- >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->> - >> This List Sponsored by: Cenzic >> >> Concerned about Web Application Security? >> Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's >> Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to >> rise, >> you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has >> the >> most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration >> testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a >> managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software >> (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can >> help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php >> And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your >> results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->> - >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This List Sponsored by: Cenzic > > Concerned about Web Application Security? > Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's > Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, > you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the > most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration > testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a > managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software > (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can > help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php > And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your > results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Sat Apr 12 2008 - 10:56:17 EDT